#lord of shadows theories

[fairymousse]

St Trina is the best part of the DLC's story

Massive spoilers below cut for the whole DLC

I think that St Trina singlehandedly makes Miquella's story not only make sense, but as a natural conclusion to his character.

Miquella's first title was Miquella the Unalloyed. This obviously means purity and lack of compromise, which would be weird if he had been manipulative all along, and just so happened to have a kinder alter ego. So I think that Miquella and St Trina were in sync as helping the people outside of order (the Haligtree, the cut content Merchant stuff).

But, as Miquella began to plan to become a God, St Trina became more separate. As such, Miquella is usually referred to as Miquella the Kind, rather than the Unalloyed. This is also evident in how the presentation of St Trina varies. The Sword of St Trina reads that:

St. Trina is an enigmatic figure. Some say she is a comely young girl, others are sure he is a boy. The only certainty is that their appearance was as sudden as their disappearance.

In the DLC, Trina is explicitly depicted as feminine, suggesting a split similar to Marika/Radagon. And Miquella discards Trina, with the two crosses associated with her being his doubts and vascilations, but also his love.

Obviously, Miquella has at this point done some horrible stuff that would encourage doubt. There's Mohg, and more explicitly Radahn. That Sword of St Trina I mentioned earlier? You find it in Caelid. There must have been some faith for her there, so she would be seeing the horrors of war and the rot. Then there's more general stuff. Will Miquella be any different from Marika? Will he be able to do good at all? This is not what you want if you need to commit to the path.

So Miquella abandons his doubts and his compassion, and this is his fatal flaw. Miquella is no longer able to change his mind about whether the vow that, (as @drenched-in-sunlight pointed out in their post on the Prattling Pate), could have been incredibly flimsy, and never intended to be honoured. He is no longer able to consider if his age of compassion is even wanted. He is no longer able to even consider Mohg. All of this, is incredibly unlike the original Miquella. A defining feature of Miquella is how he abandoned Fundamentalism, because it couldn't help Malenia. Miquella without his compassion and his doubts, isn't really Miquella.

Miquella the Kind is an ideal. St Trina is the genuine heart, who has been forsaken.

Edit : Here is my follow up post to this.

[st7e]

So, this spell we see in the Shadow of the Erdtree trailer:

It appears to be a mass version of the same effect as the Bewitching Branch item, it even has the same particle effects.

The Bewitching Branch, of course, is an item associated with Miquella that turns enemies into allies. It appears that the spell in the trailer is doing the same thing. This spell is likely a version of a power that Miquella has.

Now let's compare this dialog from the beginning of the trailer:

"He wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. There is nothing more terrifying."

To the description for the Bewitching Branch:

The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection.

We already know that Miquella was good at "compelling" love from others, but now we're being told that this power is terrifying and dangerous. We hear of many people who love Miquella in the base game, the most important examples being Malenia and Mohg. We must wonder, then, was this love genuine or compelled?

What if Miquella is the one who compelled Mohg to capture him? What if Miquella being torn from the Haligtree and bled dry by Mohg was actually part of his plan to reach the Land of Shadow? The YouTube description for the trailer says:

It was to this land (the Land of Shadow) that Miquella departed. Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage. Of all things Golden

What if Mohg's fucked up ritual was a necessary step in Miquella's "divestment"?

What if instead of the tragic victim we all thought he was, Miquella was actually pulling the strings all along?

[gobbogoo]

A Brief Analysis of Elden Ring's Miquella

Miquella is a manifestation of the childish question: "why can't we all just get along?"

His power to "charm" others is an answer to that question, and what makes it so frightening is that everyone IS happier when under the charm's effects; they arguably become much kinder versions of themselves, but that forced compassion is its own form of tyranny. You can't make people get along without removing their autonomy.

Miquella likely recognized this once, as with one notable exception there's no record of him ever forcing his will upon others within the Lands Between. It was only after trying and failing to save Malenia, Godwyn, and the Lands Between itself that his desperation to have ANY impact on things made him forsake his morals and take control of Mohg's mind.

Miquella came to believe his curse of eternal nascence was responsible for his impotence. He told himself if he could just break free of his youth, he'd finally be able to help everyone like he always wanted. What he didn't realize was that adulthood comes at the price of childhood innocence, and by forcing himself to grow up, he was leaving behind everything that once defined him. The curse was a part of who he was, and to hate it was to hate himself.

We never truly meet Miquella in-game, because Miquella lies in pieces scattered across the Realm of Shadow. Instead we find something that claims to be him, even as it stands in opposition to everything he believed in.

His story is a cautionary tale about the dangers of self-sacrifice. You cannot aid others by burning yourself out, and you cannot love others if you do not love yourself. Miquella allowed his selflessness to destroyed him, and in doing so he ultimately harmed all those he wished to help.

[space-blue]

SOTE rant (1)

One thing that I find very annoying, is the propensity for Lore video makers to completely jump on the DLC and analyse it in a void. Everyone is theory crafting like the base game doesn't exist anymore.

Everyone is taking Miquella's approach as the go to for divinity 101 and acting like only the people name dropped in the DLC matter, except for Radagon, who is very important, despite NEVER being named, ANYWHERE in the SOTE game files.

Oh no, excuse me, he's named ONCE in a delete dialogue (unless he speaks during battle but I was under the impression that he never does?) from Radahn:

Yet everyone is out there saying Marika used the gate to make herself a god and created Radagon in the process. And that he was created that way as her lord, and then immediately fathered Messmer and Melina.

But I... kind of don't see it? Why would SHE need to use a special vessel ritual like everyone is theorizing?

She already has a sworn lord : Godfrey.

Why is everyone making these Marika centric lore videos and never dropping the names of key characters?

Godfrey. Serosh. Maliketh. Why is nobody asking themselves WHEN did Marika get granted her "brother" Maliketh by the three fingers? Why is nobody making speculation on whether she had a pact with Hoarah Loux before becoming a god.

He could very well be the vessel needed. He doesn't need to have his soul separated from a body or any such nonsense. That's what Miquella ended up doing because he had no choice if he wanted to use Radahn.

Here is what we know of Godfrey :

Godfrey was a ferocious warrior. When he vowed to become a lord, he took the Beast Regent Serosh upon on his back to suppress the ceaseless lust for battle that raged within. The first demigods were The Elden Lord Godfrey and his offspring, the golden lineage. Crown of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord. The age of the Erdtree began amongst conflict, when Godfrey was lord of the battlefield. He led the War against the Giants. Faced the Storm Lord, alone. And then, there came a moment. When his last worthy enemy fell. And it was then, as the story is told, that the hue of Lord Godfrey's eyes faded. Helm of the Crucible Knights who served Godfrey, the first Elden Lord. Weapon of Godfrey, Elden Lord. It was broken in a battle fought as leader of the Tarnished during the Long March. This weapon is symbolic of Godfrey's vow to conduct himself as a lord, later becoming an emblem of the golden lineage. In the days of the past, a crown was warranted with strength.

The first demigods were The Elden Lord Godfrey and his offspring, the golden lineage.

This line either means that the voice of the game is lying, wrong, or not knowledgeable enough. Or that Messmer is not a demigod, or that Messmer is the son of Godfrey.

And while he does have red hair, he is cursed with a red flame... And his little sister, Melina, doesn't have the distinctive red hair of Radagon's children. She's also not a demigod as far as we know.

Messmer and Melina are named M like Mohg and Morgott! We have plenty of hints that they could be Godfrey's children, first and foremost being the canon base game text asserting all demigods first descended from him. We simply don't know otherwise.

It's also asserting he was the first Elden Lord, and not second or a later addition.

There's also his vow to conduct himself as a Lord, which seems like something he might have done prior to Marika making him Lord.

The beast depicted is Serosh, aged counselor who guides the golden lineage. The black nails protruding from golden fur are said to represent Serosh, Lord of Beasts, who went to become King Godfrey's Regent.

Serosh is very mysterious, and we just know he's some sort of limiter. I've made plenty of posts arguing for Maliketh and Serosh being the same type of beasts from the same global origins.

Beasts are reverred by the Hornsent! Our first boss is their storm beast guys, and the head looks quite similar to Serosh. Who, BTW, is also a spirit form?? Who turns real on command?

All this to say, it doesn't sound impossible at all, to me, that Marika would have come to the gate of divinity already having a lord lined up -- Godfrey -- and counsellors giving advice on how to execute her plan : Serosh and Metyr mother of fingers.

I assume it would be in Metyr's power to grand Marika her (necessary?) Shadowbound beast.

Isn't it interesting that Maliketh is a Shadowbound Beast? In our Shadow Realm DLC? He's never mentioned in the files, sadly.

But all of these people are key to Marika's ascension. I wish people would think about them more when they do their lore videos and not just roll right into creating Radagon out of thin air.

What bothers me most about the secret rite here, is that it says "the secret rite of the divine gateway", like THE rite, not A rite. It could be THE other one is not secret...

But more importantly, the line "usher in a god's return" just really does not fit EITHER of Miquella OR Marika. Neither of them is returning!! Maybe the God of Placidussax would be returning, but both Marika and Miquella are/try to ascend for the first time.

Miquella is also the only one with anyLord shennanigans we know of for sure.

I think Miquella divests himself of everything in order to comply with this ritual. So he has something to "return to". He sheds everything, so that he can pass through the gateway. But he's returning to an Empyrean's birthright. To a demi-god.

But we don't know that this is something Marika would have needed. We don't know that she used this specific ritual. After all, circumstances are VERY different for her :

The Gate of Divinity is fresh and bloody, implying a recent mass sacrifice. And then she plucks Gold from a corpse or receptacle of some sort.

None of this is depicted in Miquella's return, and he's not trying to emulate his mother, because her way of doing things came with a curse loaded "original sin". So we even have reason to believe Miquella would not actually be replicating the same ritual.

[elffromforests]

"i heard people

are shipping us?"

"I know. I started it"

[starfreak]

Random Elden Ring Rant (Contains Spoilers, VERY LONG)

So, the Numen. We can choose it as a character preset, which tells us they come from another world, or another land. I say "or another land" because historically, America is referred to as the "New World," but it's not a separate planet. However, translations from the Japanese version of the game suggest that the world they come from is one of spirits, the dead, etc., so it could definitely be a Literal other world.

Marika is (rumored to be) a Numen, as are the Black Knife Assassins that participated in the Night of Black Knives.

If Marika is Numen, then it stands to reason so is Radagon, since they are the same person in the same body. This means their children together, Malenia and Miquella (and now presumably Messmer since he has red hair like Radagon, but Miyazaki said that he's the child of Marika, so unless there's another red-haired hottie running around the Lands Between, Radagon is the father), are also Numen. This also means that other children of Marika/Radagon are half-Numen.

It seems Numen are not a single ethnicity, but a whole race of people, with various different contradicting skin tones and hair colors. The template in the character creator has medium-dark skin and brown hair. Marika has pale skin and golden hair (possibly changed to be gold from the Greater Will's influence) and Radagon has the same skin with fiery red hair. We know from the Giant's Red Braid item description (below) that Radagon was either cursed by the Fire Giants or simply born with red hair. I mean...no item descriptions suggest he was born with it...but if I was born with hair I hated, I would blame it on a curse too. Though, to be fair, it IS the same color as the Fire Giants' hair.

Also the Black Knife Assassins have no physical form, so we can't discern their hair or skin colors.

So skin tone seems like a non-factor, but Hair is much harder to parse, due to half the Numen in the game having fiery hair and pronouns. The game says nothing about Marika's hair changing to gold, so it may have always been that color, leading me to believe that indeed, Numen are just...magic humans from a land far away...she's just blonde.

WELP.

That's all cool, but what is the culture of the Numen like? Well we can see that they have a very strong affinity for women and femininity. Not only is Marika, the most powerful Numen we know, a woman...all of the Black Knives are women. Additionally, if we choose to believe that Malenia and Miquella are Numen, this fact is further evidenced by Malenia's being a strong warrior woman (she is literally a Valkyrie) and Miquella's own complex gender identity. Miquella was (supposedly) born male, but presented as rather feminine/androgynous all his life. While Malenia is a masculine woman and reflects Radagon, Miquella is a feminine boy reflecting Marika. Not to mention that Miquella is ALMOST DEFINITELY Saint Trina, who is exclusively referred to as feminine.

In addition to the stong feminine aspects of Numen society apparent in the overabundance of strong fem-presenting characters, the description of Marika's Hammer suggests that women in Numen society (like Marika) have a role as destroyers and warriors, while men (Radagon) have a role of construction and repair.

"Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon attempted to repair it."

Again, this is just speculation, and the mythological actions of Radagon/Marika are likely motivated by a mutlitude of things (namely, the Greater Will constantly looming over them, the presence of the Elden Beast constantly lurking just under the surface), but I'm making do with what I have.

Also, back to genetics of the Numen again for a second, of all Radagon and Marika's children outside of the ones they had together (Messmer and the Twin Empyreans), most of them seem to inherit Radagon/Marika's hair.

Radagon and Rennala's kids, Radahn, Rykard, and Ranni, (presumably) have red hair. We never actually see Ranni's hair pre-doll form, so I'm assuming it's red lkke her brothers'.

Marika and Godfrey's kids, Godwyn, Mohg, and Morgott, all have either pale hair or no hair (Mohg has no hair visible on account of all the omen horns).

So it seems like the genes of Numen are incredibly dominant, even dominating the gene pool multiple generations after the first. Godwyn's kids, Godrick and Godefroy, have the same hair color as he does. Malenia's "daughters," although not genetically related to her, all seem to have gained her red hair through exposure to her Scarlet Aeonia. This may also be true of the Cleanrot Knights, but they could also have plucked the red hairs from Fire Giants or Leonine Misbegotten and used them as decor for their armor.

Even merely interacting with a Numen as powerful as Marika, or her direct children, can change one's appearance irreversably. Sure, this could all likely be from her status as a God, but who knows how powerful the average Numen could become if granted the strength? We become Elden Lord after all.

[onedecimatedduck]

.......did miquella ever realise Radahn's type is the same as his

Radahn loves Godfrey so bloody much, that he has to wear him on his clothes, follow the same career path, and have the same build even though his heart is a lot gentler and he is a magic user from an int family. It would not surprise me if there's a secret chest full of Godfrey's pictures in Redmane castle.

There would have been a higher chance for Radahn to be on board if it was Mohg who asked him to be his consort... I am so sorry miquella

[dr-zeddy]

I vaguely remembered I left a comment on the Fextralife page for "Fevor's Cookbook (3)" last summer

so I went back to check if it was still there and, well,

tfw your delulu ramblings about your favourite video game turn out to be right???

[henry-fox-biggest-stan]

Lotr and stranger things: Masterpost

I also mention dnd when it’s relevant to the lotr parallels.

(You can read this with absolutely no knowledge on lotr or dnd don’t worry)

@somewiseoutthere @itwasaseven7 @beomgyubestie @thy-lovelylionheart @itachisnipplesharingan <3

The thing is that stranger things isn’t a lotr retelling, so there are many parallels to several characters. It isn’t “oh, this character parallels ONLY this lotr character”, no, many characters have several parallels with several lotr characters. Let’s get to it.

Mike, the insecure hero.

Mike “it was the best thing I’ve ever done” Wheeler and Sam “it was the bravest thing he ever did” Gamgee. Many people also see Sam as a paladin (those with joy and whimsy and gayness in their hearts) (no but srs I’ve seen several people call him a paladin), even if he’s commonly known as a cleric. And guess who’s character is a paladin. And guess who is a cleric?

(Let’s focus on mike’s sheet rn).

From Worlds Turned Upside Down, official book. It has all the party’s dnd sheets, not their dnd character’s dnd sheets, but THEIR dnd sheet, as if they were dnd characters. This is not Mike’s character, but Mike Wheeler (you can see it, played by Finn, is a DM, etc). And would you look at that, he is a cleric.

In the Hawkins Middle School Yearbook there’s the boys’ characters’ dnd sheets. Take them with a grain of salt since idk if they’re canon, but it says that mike’s race is a halfling. Yeah ok.

Sam is also not the most confident person out there, always selling himself short and calling himself names, even tho he makes very good poetry and he literally fought against shelob and won. Sure he used frodo’s (bilbo’s) sword which is a cool, sharp sword, but like, shelob is a primordial being. That’s like Mike (with his 12 year old height) having a very cool sword and using it to fight all alone a grown size demogorgon (with absolutely no fighting experience, let alone sword wielding experience) who is inmortal and has existed since the beginning of time, and then winning.

Also the Frodo “dying” scene is kinda similar to s1? Like, Sam is trying to protect Frodo even tho Shelob already has poisoned him (Mike looking for Will even tho he’s already in the upside down) and when he was done with shelob he saw Frodo “dead”, and cried and decided to go and take the ring to mount doom, and then come back for Frodo (Mike seeing Will’s “body” at the quarry, going away crying in his bike and stopping the search, also smth smth mike jumping into the quarry, same place wills “body” was found, while Sam wanted to go back to Frodo’s body after destroying the ring and then not leave him, aka dying [This is an unpopular opinion, but I always thought that this scene: “It would not be worth while to leave his master for that [vengeance]. It would not bring him back. Nothing would. They had better both be dead together. And that too would be a lonely journey. He looked on the bright point of the sword” and “Good-bye, master, my dear!’ he murmured. ‘Forgive your Sam. He’ll come back to this spot when the job’s done – if he manages it. And then he’ll not leave you again.” obviously references Sam thinking about suicide (although he dismisses the idea quickly), since it’s not like we don’t see suicide in lotr (denethor), but not everyone seems to agree with this interpretation]), but then Sam overheard the orcs mention Frodo was alive, so he went back for him (El showing Mike that Will is still alive, and Mike beginning to look for him again).

About byler and Sam and Frodo, there’s also a class difference in both relationships.

Dart parallels gollum (explained more below, where I talk about Dustin) and Mike’s behavior and opinion regarding dart is so similar to Sam’s over gollum.

Also Frodo? Mike’s parallels with Max, who ALSO parallels Frodo. Shelob wrapped frodo on her web. Mike has web imagery (amazing find by @mikesbasementbeets) (as does max and other characters that are in danger, trapped, etc. Smth smth henry and spiders, smth smth Max and Mike web imagery, smth smth falling into Henry's web, getting trapped, getting vecnad (Mike is so getting vecna’d idk what to tell you the evidence is just ABUNDANT). Shelob is female which also adds to all of mothergate, but whatever). Frodo “died”. This theory of mike temporarily dying in s5.

If we get a scene with mike getting vecnad choosing whether he should stay or he should go (s4 Dustin's voice: "get it?") and he's metaphorically dangling from the edge and the people outside vecna’s vision (specially will) are calling his name panicked and he has to chose whether to die (remember mike's horrible mental health and him stepping off the cliff in s1) or live and go forward, I'll go insane. Cause I'll be an obvious parallel to frodo literally dangling off the edge of a cliff in the return of the king movie with, on top of the cliff, Sam, offering his hand and a escape, a life. On the other, the ring, and flames, death. And he chooses life. Also the cliff scene in s1 mentioned before, also paralleled to this frodo scene, with Dustin/Sam telling him to "don't do it" (aka, "don't you let go"). But he does. He's saved, but he does. I guess it puts el (who saves him) in Sam's position aswell (it is Sam who pulls frodo forward so he doesn't fall). Having a scene like the one described before in s5 could be an awesome parallel, in s1 mike chooses death (for Dustin, but he also has some other personal reasons). In s5, mike chooses life. In s1, mike was willing to die for his friends (and cause he wants to). In s5 mike is willing to live for his friends (and because he wants to).

[poetic cinema]

Also Mike having his hero moment, probably with a sword since 1- his character is a paladin and 2- Sam kills shelob with Frodo’s sword. @aemiron-main has lots of posts on this whole concept. Also smth smth Henry/Shelob parallels, and Sam hurts Shelob…

Also his post on mike/arwen parallels

Mike himself being a cleric makes me insane. Bro wants to be a knight so bad but he’s a healer. And this isn’t something bad. In fact clerics are pretty important because of their healing abilities (“you’re the heart!”). You can perfectly play without one, but it’s encouraged to have one just in case. Clerics also fight, they’re not just healers btw.

I think it may be a way to show than the person who mike actually is vs the person who mike wants to be are two completely different people. Smth smth insecurity and wrapped perception of self, smth smth thinks low of himself because he’s comparing himself to people that don’t make sense for him to compare himself to (fictional characters, El who literally has superpowers and has been raised as a weapon, Nancy who is older than him and had more practice with guns out of necessity, and also more years spent writing than him [he’s not “an ace reporter” like Louis lane, however who is an ace reporter? Nancy], anyway “you can’t judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree”), smth smth internalized homophobia, smth smth wants to be this cool, mature, adult guy (s3) but in order to be that he has to change himself. Whatever.

(Adding to this, Mike wants to be Lucas so bad, actually. Lucas is the opposite of Mike, he’s how heterosexuality is actually performed (genuinely and naturally), he’s the older sibling, Mike was very “we don’t wanna be popular” in s4, but it definitely bothered him that Lucas COULD be popular while knowing that if he tried he would fail, they even have that scene fighting over the same character in s2 (both wanna be venkman).

To prove this further, during the scene where Will destroys castle byers, we can see that the photo of the whole party that he stares at is inside a frame. A frame made out of ice cream sticks, so handmade. And in each stick, there's written the name of a member of the party. Will The Wise on top, on the left, Lucas the Knight, down, Dustin the Bard, and on the right, Mike the DM.

Lucas is a knight… aka a paladin…

Mike is not even a character but the DM… Why is Mike titled as a DM instead of his dnd class? Does he not play too? (Except he does because his character is a paladin. Unless he doesn't, and when he called himself a paladin in s2 while naming everyone's classes he was just naming what he thought his role in the party was - remember that one post? I can't find it but it basically said that Mike called himself a paladin and Will a cleric cause that's how he sees both of them. their relationship and role in the party)

It also makes us ask ourselves other questions like, why isn't Will "Will the Wizard" or "Will the Cleric" (since everyone else is named as their dnd role, not their characters name)? Or, why is Lucas a knight?

(Regina George's voice: so you agree, Mike is the DM and most important character and everyone else are just players? (manifestation theory). So you agree, Will is not titled with his dnd class because he DOES have powers irl? So you agree, Mike wants to be a paladin but it is Lucas who is the knight, aka, Mike wants to be Lucas?)

Anyway.

Will (with his own weight to carry).

Will is Frodo and the mind flayer is the one ring.

Frodo suffering the effects of the ring causing personality changes, thoughts that weren’t his own etc, and the same thing happening to Will while he was possessed. The movie scene where Frodo holds a sword against Sam’s throat, and Will choking Joyce. “As Will's connection with the Mind Flayer grew deeper, he started becoming more demoralized and scared” same with Frodo as the quest went in. Also if Frodo put on the ring, sauron would feel it, just like how Will was the spy. The mind flayer getting out of Will’s body thanks to heat, and the ring only being destroyed by casting it into the fires of Mordor. “I felt this evil like it was looking at me”, the eye of Sauron. Frodo getting attacked by shelob (huge immortal spider) (Sam thought he was dead), and Will getting possessed by the mind flayer (spider-shaped) (he almost died). Frodo was willing to sacrifice himself (he didn’t think he would make it to mount doom alive, and that if he did, that he wouldn’t come back. He expected to die during the quest and yet he continued), Will was willing to sacrifice himself (Morse code tapping: close gate. It’s not explained in canon, but I believe he knew it would kill him. Also, he was gonna sacrifice himself to close the gate, and the scene of El closing the gate in s2 is already paralleled to Frodo in mount doom (more below, where I talk about el), so Will (Frodo) was gonna sacrifice himself to close the gate (destroy the ring). Basically what happened in the books then).

Frodo is also an almost Christ-like figure (specially l considering Tolkien’s Catholicism). Christ who died for our sins (Frodo sacrificing everything and himself to save middle earth), who carried the cross in which he would be hung (Frodo carrying the ring, a great weight, and that destroyed him), unmarried, Jesus and his disciples (Frodo and the fellowship), mercy and forgiveness, etc etc. Where am I going with this? Will’s Jesus-coding.

Frodo is also a very tragic character, however he has a hopeful ending.

We technically meet him as a teenager (the day before his 33th birthday, which for hobbits is basically their 18th birthday), and then he is thrust unwillingly into a dangerous quest and becomes irrevocably changed. There is a big contrast with the Frodo from before (happy, normal hobbit) and the Frodo from after (very traumatized, cannot go back). Kinda resembles someone’s character story… And frodo also knew tragedy before everything (the death of his parents) just like Will also knew tragedy before the upside down (his fathers abuse, bullying). Hell, they even share a birthday (on different months). Both were born on the 22th.

Frodo endured so much and sacrificed so many parts of himself to save everyone, and yet he’s called weak and boring (by the fandom) for not engaging in many physical combats, and crying. Will endured so much and sacrificed so many parts of himself to save everyone, and yet he’s called weak and boring (by the fandom) for not engaging in many physical combats (and having his fight or flight response be freeze), and crying. I find both Frodo and Will some of the most compelling and interest characters from both lotr and stranger things. Also frodo lost a finger (physical representation of how much the quest changed him and how he won’t be going back to normal ever). This theory of Will losing a hand in s5 by @pinkeoni… Beren and Maedhros (characters from the silmarillion) also lost a hand. Beren is paralleled to Frodo (and Aragorn), who’s paralleled to Will. Lúthien (Beren’s wife) is paralleled to both Arwen and Sam, who are paralleled to Mike… Maedhros killed himself, Beren died but came back… This theory of Will dying but coming back… Also Frodo got stabbed by a morgul blade, and “though the knife's blade dissolved soon afterwards, a fragment remained within Frodo's wound, working its way toward his heart and threatening to turn Frodo into a wraith. Elrond was able to remove the shard and heal the wound, but each year on the anniversary of receiving the wound Frodo became seriously ill” vs Will feeling whatever he feels on his neck ever since the possession. (Also each year on the anniversary Frodo becomes ill vs “The anniversary of an event brings back traumatic memories” vs the attention brought to birthdays in lotr (specifically Frodo’s) vs birthdaygate…)

Will lost his memories as s2 went on, as the possession from the mind flayer went on. As the quest goes on, Frodo keeps on losing memories. He loses himself and his mind to the ring, and “as I lay in prison, Sam, I tried to remember the Brandywine, and Woody End, and The Water running through the mill at Hobbiton. But I can't see them now” / “Do you remember that bit of rabbit, Mr. Frodo?” he said, “And our place under the warm bank in Captain Faramir's country, the day I saw an oliphaunt?” “No, I am afraid not, Sam,” said Frodo. “At least, I know that such things happened, but I cannot see them. No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or star are left to me”. Also smth smth memorygate (x, x). It is memories that help against Vecna, not having them makes you more vulnerable, a perfect victim. One of the reasons Frodo was so depressed during the quest is because he was slowly losing the memories of his life before, only seeing the ring and Mordor and fire.

Also, talking about Frodo, you ever wondered what Frodo’s name means?

For a little linguistic context, Tolkien was even more crazy about languages than I am (if that’s even possible), and we know that he simply translated lotr which was written by Frodo and Sam in Adûni (Westron). Frodo’s real name is Maura, which in Westron means “wise”. Tolkien translated this name into Frodo, a proto-Germanic name, which is a real name people used, and that also means “wise”. Will the Wise.

Regarding dnd, Will’s character is a wizard and/or cleric (going back to that post of Mike calling Will a cleric cause that’s how he sees Will and his role in the party). Will himself (see character sheets above) is a magic-user. This is crazy to me tbh it just confirms the Will has powers theories (talking about Will with powers, Frodo might have also used magic, even if unknowingly…).

Looking at you, s5 episode 4 called Sorcerer that contains the baby byler flashback.

Talking about sorcerers, Gandalf (although described repeatedly as a wizard in lotr), by dnd standards, is a sorcerer. Same with Saruman and with Radagast (Will is paralleled to all three of them). Sorcerers are born with their magic, wizards learn it.

Clerics focus on healing although they also fight (and have magic powers), wizards and sorcerers have yknow magic powers. A magic-user is an umbrella term for anyone who uses magic, let it be a wizard, a cleric, a mage, a warlock (if we’re assigning classes to lotr characters, Frodo is commonly associated with warlocks. Warlocks are those who “strike a deal (sometimes unwillingly) with greater powers known as 'patrons' who grant them magical abilities” like Frodo getting the power of being invisible thanks to ring. Those patrons are usually evil. Depends on how you think will got his powers, if he had them since birth or got them thanks to the lab/the upside down, etc).

Will is either a wizard or sorcerer, or a light domain cleric, since he can use fireball. Will found a way to communicate with the lights in s1… However the party are level 3 (in all the character sheets I found) and (light domain) clerics can only use fireball from level 5 and up? So it makes more sense for him to be a wizard (or a sorcerer), who can use fireball since level 3.

I also find it funny that despite Will’s character being “Will the wise” he has the lowest wisdom points out of the whole party. Will’s armor class is also 7. It was a seven.

Will The Wise.

The duffers cannot keep getting away with this.

Who is labeled as The Wise in lotr? Saruman, and Will has saruman parallels (we’ll get there) but hold your horses, cause that’s not all of it. Gandalf is also called Gandalf the Wise, at least once (“For nearly thirty years he laboured in the cause against Sauron; and he became a friend of Gandalf the Wise, from whom he gained much wisdom”, the appendix about Aragorn and Arwen’s romance). And Gandalf died and came back, like Will, but he came back changed, no longer Gandalf the grey but Gandalf the white (having adapted the title of one of the spies of sauron). Kinda like how Will died but then came back changed (and kept having visions of the mind flayer…). Coming back to this theory of Will sacrificing himself to save everyone in s5 but then coming back to life…

Radagast, password to castle byers (so it has something to do with Will), and also one of the five maias sent to middle earth to defeat sauron. “Radagast lives at Rhosgobel on the western eaves of Mirkwood”. Mirkwood reference (we’ll get there there’s SO MUCH surrounding Mirkwood). Who lives near Mirkwood? (Mirkwood as in the road in st) Will, his house is like next to it.

“Radagast was unwittingly used by Saruman to lure Gandalf to his tower of Orthanc, where Gandalf was captured. Fortuitously, Radagast also helped rescue him by sending Gwaihir the eagle to Orthanc with news of the movements of Sauron's forces.” vs “Hopper becomes trapped in the tunnels and passes out. […] Will has a vision of Hopper, leading Joyce to recruit Bob's help to determine its meaning. Bob identifies Will's drawings as a map of Hawkins and the pumpkin field as the place Hopper was going. […] Joyce, Bob, Will, and Mike rescue Hopper,” so the same thing then. Will/Radagast saving Hopper/Gandalf.

“Radagast is "the friend of all birds and beasts,” Will *couldn’t bring himself to shot at a literal monster* *kindness personified* Byers.

Later, he get possessed, becoming the spy.

The spy. Saruman.

Saruman became a spy of Sauron. He used a palantir, a sphere used for communication, to communicate with Sauron (although the palantir does not transmit sound, only images and thoughts). Not unlike Will being able to “communicate” with the mind flayer, having vision of what it was doing and thoughts of what it was thinking.

“The master stones of north and south were able to 'eavesdrop' on such external conversations”, unlike Saruman who was a willing spy, Will wasn’t, the mind flayer was just spying back. “Eavesdropping” you could say, but it also saw what Will saw.

Saruman also called himself “Saruman of Many Colours” at one point. Saruman of Many Colours vs Will’s rainbow spaceship, in which he used all the colours he had.

All of these are wizards/sorcerers/whatever. We get it, duffers, Will has powers.

+ By the way, what about Rosie? Sam’s wife? Who is she? Well, certainly not El. Rosie is Sam’s childhood friend, a string of normalcy after all his adventures. Rosie represents home, and safety, and comfort, and the life he left behind (remember that for Tolkien adventures weren’t something to strive for, after all he lived during wwi, Frodo is irrevocably changed by his adventures, “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend”). Rosie fell in love with him before knowing that he helped save middle-earth, aka, she fell in love with him when he was “nobody”, without knowing he was a hero. Reminds me of someone who doesn’t feel like a hero and is very insecure. Reminds me of their childhood best friend who is a string of normalcy, of the life they had before, who loved him before he was a hero and before he fought monsters, and fell in love with him, just him. I don’t know who, tho. Mike asking Will to be his friend was “the best thing I ever did”. Sam asking Rosie to be his wife was “the bravest thing he ever did”. Huh. Reminds me of “mike wants to be a hero like el / will wants to be a love interest like el”.

Also, this really caught my eye. “and it is not a dissimilar notion to hold Rosie and Frodo up as the anima and animus aspects of the same character”. I’ve read a theory about el as an anima of Will so when I saw this I was like no way. Do I believe that theory? Tbh no, just like I don’t believe Tolkien wrote Rosie and Frodo as the same character, but the fact that both characters can be interpreted in the same way, in different fandoms as a pure coincidence is so curious.

But despite all the character he parallels, he’s Frodo. He’s so frodo it hurts. If I had to assign a single lotr character to each st character, Will would be frodo.

El, the “mage”.

I see El as Gandalf. Sure they’re very different, but they’re also very similar. Gandalf, while helping the fellowship (and thorin’s company in the hobbit) in everything, also has his own adventures, goes away for a while to do something and then comes back. That’s something El does constantly. El is also described as a “mage” by Mike (who then describes Will as a cleric even tho his dnd character is a wizard but his class is magic user. But we’ll get to that). Gandalf is also the one who comes to get them out of trouble, for example, Gandalf kinda sacrifices himself (but then comes back) to defeat the Balrog, Gandalf is also who the hobbits and tbh everyone relies on to solve problems, Gandalf seems to always have the answer even if not always. Kinda like how El is the one doing the physical job (aka, closing the gate, fighting the monsters) and saving everyone, being a superhero. You can specially see this in s1 and s2, where in s1 El appears in the woods to help them find Will, then she leaves, and then comes back just in time to rescue Mike (who jumped of a cliff) and break troy’s arm (also how El never uses her powers against anyone who doesn’t deserve it but is able to use them for harm, while Gandalf never uses his powers against anyone who doesn’t deserve it but does threaten people with turning them into animals), and where in s2 she’s off doing her own thing, until she comes back just in time to close the gate. Same thing in s3 and s4, her off with max, and then her off in NINA.

Gandalf "died" while fighting the balrog to protect the fellowship. El also "died" while fighting the demogorgon to protect the party. They both came back, after everyone had already mourned them.

Gandalf is also of unsure origins. Very old, older that time itself, doesn’t really know where he came from etc. idk what you want me to say but Jane is NOT El those are two completely different girls (even Terry says so, “no”), so where exactly does El come from? There are many theories about that, but let’s leave it aside. Also, when Gandalf appears you know the characters are gonna get involved on an adventure (whether they want to or not), just like el’s appearance made the party get involved with the supernatural.

Gandalf ended up going to the grey havens after the destruction of sauron since he was only sent to middle earth to protect it from him. Many many theories regarding el’s potential ending… (some here, here, here and here)

Now to the silmarillion (i actually haven’t read it😔 I have a physical copy and I’ve started it but I can’t get into it😔)

Someone named Annatar arrived to a place called Eregion. In Eregion lives Celebrimbor, among other elves. Annatar seemed like an elf, and claimed to have been sent by the Valar (gods, basically) to share his wisdom and skill, specially on ring craft and jewelry. Not suspicious at all. Celebrimbor says “cool” and him and the smiths of Eregion followed Annatar’s guidance and instructions, and they created the rings of powers (which were like, a massive deal). Turns out that, surprise, Annatar was Sauron in disguise, who then went home and created the one ring to control all of middle earth. Yay.

Kinda like Henry tricking El, not telling her he was 001, being evil, and all that.

“Later Sauron reassumed his role as the Dark Lord and placed the One Ring on his finger, claiming dominion over all the Rings of Power and their bearers. Before this, Celebrimbor believed Sauron to be what he had claimed to be, but realising the truth he and the Elves of Eregion defied Sauron by withholding the other rings from him.”

When El notices the Henry is, well, evil and murdering everyone, vanishes him off to dimension x.

Celebrimbor died. He was killed by Sauron with many arrows. Ouch.

��far from joining Fëanor's rebellion, she opposed him in nearly everything.” Fëanor is a rebel, Galadriel opposed him in nearly everything. Fëanor and Henry parallels…

“And that she wished to leave Valinor and go to the vast world of Middle-earth, to give free rein there to her talents. She went for a time to live with her mother's relatives in Alqualondë.” El escaping the lab, going to visit her “mom” and Kali in s2. (You could even say her living with Mike on s1. Lukeandleiagate…)

Cool similarity I’ve seen, even if it wasn’t intentional. Éowyn, strong, badass, and complex female character, was supposed to die but Tolkien changed his mind. El, strong, badass, and complex female character, was supposed to die but the duffers changed their minds.

Also, “In order to provide a distraction so Eleven and Hopper could safely reach the Gate, Mike, Lucas, Dustin, Max, and Steve went into the tunnels to burn them” (s2) reminds me of Aragorn and everyone distracting Sauron so that Frodo and Sam could destroy the ring.

Max (and life).

I can definitely see (s4) Max as Éowyn. Éowyn who was depressed and suicidal at the start of the story and takes part (willingly) in a war, wants to die in battle, killed the witch king, and then she collapsed for some time. Éomer finds her and thinks she’s dead but after she’s been brought to the houses of healing and is unconscious for some time, she wakes. She also chooses life, she becomes a healer rather than a warrior. “I will be a shieldmaiden no longer, nor vie with the great Riders, nor take joy only in the songs of slaying. I will be a healer, and love all things that grow and are not barren." Max wanting to die until she’s face to face with death, and suddenly she doesn’t want to anymore, she’s not ready. Max holding on to happy memories. Éowyn disguises herself as a man, Owens thinks that Max is a boy.

Éowyn was believed to be dead but then she wasn’t. Max died until El brought her back. Her brother Éomer has a scene in the movies hugging her body and crying and screaming cause he thinks she’s dead. So does Lucas.

Also reminds me a bit of sam and frodo, since the pose is the same (seriously, look at the position of Lucas’s arms vs Sam’s arms. Literally same pose). Talking about Sam and Frodo,

“Death” scene parallels. Except Frodo wasn’t dead, just completely paralyzed to the point that in the book it says Sam couldn’t even feel a heartbeat, but he was alive and woke up hours later. And then there’s Max who died but El brought her back (made her have a heartbeat again). Lucas thought she was dead during this, Sam thought Frodo was dead during this. Frodo in return of the king eventually woke up and they have a lovely reunion. Max in s5…

Max also has web imagery, just like frodo got wrapped in a web (smth smth henry and spiders, the mind flayer being spider-shaped, shelob, etc). And, during the fellowship of the ring, when they are at Weathertop, Frodo gets stabbed by a Morgul blade, causing temporal blindness.

As I mentioned before with Mike, the scene of her getting vecna’d (at the cemetery) and seeing a escape (a kind of metaphorical portal, her seeing her friends) and then having choose between death or life, and choosing life, feels so much like Frodo dangling from the cliff at mount doom in the movies, having to choose between let Sam pull him up (life) or follow the ring (death). It shows he’s not 100% corrupted by the ring, and that he still has people who care about him (that unlike gollum, he’s not too far gone), and that he cares about (just like Max’s memories are about her love for others, not the love others have for her. Frodo offers Sam his hand not because Sam wants him to live, but because he wants to live, and he loves Sam more than he loves the ring).

Also during the Frodo “death” scene, in the book, Sam is there and tries to save him but he’s too late, just like Lucas not saving Max in time because of Jason.

We also see that memories help against Vecna. Like Max’s running up that hill montage, it’s her memories of her love for others and good times that saved her. Without these memories, she would have died. Similar thing happens to Sam, in Mordor, he remembered old memories. “and now as once more the night of Mordor closed over them, through all his thoughts there came the memory of water; and every brook or stream or fount that he had ever seen, under green willow-shades or twinkling in the sun, danced and rippled for his torment behind the blindness of his eyes. He felt the cool mud about his toes as he paddled in the Pool at Bywater with Jolly Cotton and Tom and Nibs, and their sister Rosie”.

“Oh but she’s paralleled to Frodo, not Sam. And Frodo loses his memories” yeah and so might max in s5… However Frodo loses them because he’s so affected by the ring. The moment the ring is destroyed, he can see clearly again. I think same will happen to Max (and Will). If Vecna has their memories, when Vecna is defeated where will they go? Back to their rightful owners.

Théoden dies, and so does Billy, and we have a scene with both Éowyn and Max crying for them. This parallel I’m not so sure about, but worth mentioning.

Also a bit of Thorin? I mention later the Bilbo/Lucas parallels, and this makes Max Thorin. Thorin dies (actually dies), unlike max who is not really dead, but thorin starts The Hobbit not really knowing Bilbo and not being particularly close with him (like max at the beginning of s2 with Lucas), but over time they become friends and get closer (s2/s3 lumax), until thorin gets upset about Bilbo giving up the arkenstone because he was dealing with gold sickness and this makes them drift apart (max breaking up with Lucas because of her own mental health and them drifting apart in between s3-s4 and beginnings of s4), except that before Thorin dies, they make up, but it’s too late (lumax making up and Max beginning to let Lucas in again, except that before they can make their movie date happen, Vecna gets her).

Lucas, (the ranger)

I see a bit of Bilbo in Lucas. Not really any explanation for this one just vibes. Like, a character living a life away from adventure and danger and freaking out when this life is disturbed (the dwarfs arriving to bilbos house, them finding El in the woods), who is also very realistic and has common sense (telling mike to tell his mom about el and rightfully freaking out), has good strategy, and is very sarcastic. Also maybe Lucas’ s5 personal arc? Like, Bilbo was all nice and respectable before the adventure and fit in with the other hobbits (s4 Lucas “conformity” Sinclair), then during his adventure he saw horrors and someone he loved die (Thorin, whether you see it as romantic or platonic), and then when he came back he was just like who cares and was as a strange as he wanted to be, didn’t care about criticism and proudly called himself odd.

Lucas’ character is also a ranger. Rangers are inspired by Aragorn, who is literally referred to as “ranger” in the books several times. Aragorn is a man who loves his friends and those he cares about and kisses them on the forehead and has been in love with the same woman all his life and isn’t like aggressive or feels the need to be the leader/hero (despite being the one leading the group once Gandalf is gone). This does not mean he doesn’t know how to get his hands dirty, he knows, but he knows when to do it and when not to. Plus it’s not like he relies on violence every time, violence is like the last option, but he can defend himself and those he cares about perfectly well. Lucas is pretty much exactly like this, and he’s also the most traditionally masculine out of the party.

Idc if it’s not on the books, Arwen fighting at helm’s deep in the movie’s deleted scene is real in my heart, so you also have Aragorn as this typically masculine guy, strong and capable, with a wife who will absolutely kick your ass and his ego does not feel threatened by this in the slightest.

Elrond (Arwen’s dad) didn’t want his daughter to be with Aragorn because he was a mortal (not out of any prejudice against mortals, but because mortals, well, died, and elves didn’t, so Aragorn’s death would cause Arwen a lot of pain, and Arwen might also make the choice to turn mortal to be with him, which she did, and Elrond didn’t want this cause it would mean he would lose his daughter someday), but Aragorn married Arwen anyway. Billy (Max’s step-brother) didn’t want Max to date Lucas because he was black (out of racism). Aragorn and Arwen’s relationship was a bit complicated at first, cause of difference in species (?), and Lumax’s relationship was a bit complicated at first, cause of racism.

Dustin, (never change)

I also see a bit of Bilbo in Dustin, a character who’s actually very smart and gets everyone out of trouble / figures stuff out, seriously very good plans (idc what you say the thing with the arkenstone was genius he almost stopped a war), very good talker (talking to Smaug, talking to gollum) (remember Dustin’s character is a bard), knows niche stuff?? Like Dustin being really into science and maths, probably knowing obscure dnd rules by heart, and then Bilbo knowing several languages and elvish poetry and all these things.

Also Dustin is a thief (see character sheets above). Not his character (who is a bard), but him. Bilbo is the designated burglar of the group. Also Bilbo is very himself yknow. After coming back from his adventure he’s just as strange as he pleases and doesn’t care what the rest of the shire thinks. Similar to Dustin who doesn’t conform to the rest of the world and is unapologetically himself. Bilbo has been called “queer” (meaning strange), “cracked”, etc for being himself without hiding. Just like Dustin is bullied.

He also parallels Éowyn a bit. He’s Éowyn while Eddie is Théoden during Eddie’s death (see image below where I talk about Eddie), and you could also say that Éowyn having a little crush / admiration on Aragorn (who ended up married to Arwen) that didn’t go anywhere and they remained friends and then she married someone else (faramir) is similar to the whole Dustin/Lucas/max thing in s2. Dustin as Éowyn, Lucas as Arwen, and Max as Aragorn (+ éowyn developed a crush on aragorn after seeing him from the first time at rohan's castle. This is a man she hasn't seen before —so immediate attraction and curiosity, like s2 Dustin and Lucas towards max— and who is from the outside world and a fighter, just like how max is from California).

Dustin also lacks a romance plot. “He’s dating suzie” correct, but their relationship is entirely off-screen. They got together off-screen, and the only moments with them are the never ending story scene and Dustin calling Suzie at the start of s4, both of these long-distance. They mention each other, but they hardly have scenes together. Dustin’s plots are unrelated to romance, unlike the rest of the party’s. Mike’s almost constant romance plot (either with el or with will), Will’s s3 and s4 romance plot, lucas’ s2, s3, and s4 romance plot. With romance plot I mean than it’s important and related to their characters. They have other things going on, of course, but the romance takes plot time, it’s there, you can’t exactly take it away. With Mike, if you take away ALL romance there’s many scenes with him that disappear and lots of things about him we no longer know. Same with Will, and same with Lucas (but to a smaller degree). With Dustin, this doesn’t happen. Reminds me of Bilbo “confirmed bachelor” Baggins. And also Frodo (despite the fact that Frodo is gay asf). Good post about Dustin and romance here.

Bilbo and Frodo are extremely paralleled which makes Dustin have things in common with Frodo aswell (lack of a romance plot, takes pride in being odd, feeling pity for gollum).

Frodo barely has friends his own age. In the book, Sam is younger than him, and so are pippin and merry and fatty. He’s also friends with Gandalf, much older. He doesn’t have any friends his own age. Dustin has the party, but he’s also friends with Erica (younger) or Steve and Eddie (older).

Frodo doesn’t have a father (or mother) since his parents died. Dustin is the son of a single mom. Bilbo and Gandalf fill the role of Frodo’s paternal figure. Dustin being friends with so many older guys + the relationship the party (where everyone has absent dads except Lucas) had with mr Clarke might show a lack of father figure, and searching for one.

But if this doesn’t prove the Dustin/Frodo parallels (makes sense, these are a bit of a stretch), I realized they might be there with dart.

Dart

Dart is gollum. Only difference, dart saves Dustin & co and gollum betrays Frodo and Sam. But that’s because Dart had Dustin (took care of him) while gollum had Frodo (took care of him) + Sam (wanted to kill him). I’m not blaming Sam, but there’s a scene in the book where, after coming back from talking to shelob, gollum is super close to repenting and not betraying them, until Sam insults him after hurriedly waking up and unknowingly makes gollum go on with his plan. Smth smth kindness is rewarded. And we know stranger things is a show about friendship and kindness and nerds.

Let’s look at all the dart / lotr parallels.

Dustin grabbing dart while having no idea what dart is or where he came from. Bilbo grabbing a random ring he found while having no idea what it truly was. Dart being a demogorgon. That ring being the one ring. One difference though, Dart ends up saving them, and the one ring needs to be destroyed.

Dustin finds dart and decides to not kill him or throw him out, but take him in and take care of him, despite having no idea what he is. Bilbo finds gollum and, although he has the chance to kill him, decides to spare his life and run away. Will realizes dart looks like the slug he threw up but doesn’t tell anyone at first (“Why didn't you tell us before?” “I wasn't sure”). Frodo realizes gollum is following them but doesn’t tell anyone at first. When Mike finds out dart is from the upside down (which has hurt Will in the past, which has hurt them in the past) he wants to kill dart. When Sam finds out gollum is after the ring and wants to kill them, he’s 100% on board with killing him.

Frodo offers gollum his protection, and gollum begins trusting Frodo and being good and nice. Sam still doesn’t buy it and doesn’t understand the relationship Frodo has with gollum. Look at this exchange between Dustin and Mike in s2.

M: “Maybe he [dart] should be dead”

D: “how can you say that?”

M: “how can you not? He’s from the upside down!”

D: “Maybe, but even if he is, it doesn’t automatically mean that he’s bad”

M: “That’s like saying just because someone’s from the Death Star doesn’t make them bad”

D: “We have a bond”

M: “A bond? Just because he likes nougats?”

D: “No, because he trusts me!”

L: “He trusts you?”

D: “Yes! I promised I would take care of him”

Don’t tell me it’s not exactly what I explained above. Dustin is so extremely Frodo-coded in this scene. Also Dustin telling Mike to not hurt Dart, like the many times Frodo told Sam to be nice and not hurt Gollum. Mike’s “where'd you go, you little bastard?” while looking for Dart is so Sam aswell.

When Will finds Dart in the bathroom, he is gentle and tries to reassure him (but it doesn’t work out). Frodo keeps on talking with gollum and protecting him.

The scene in the tunnels where Dustin goes to talk to Dart is also similar to the scene in the books where the men find gollum and Frodo convinces them to not kill him, and to let him go talk to him, since he’ll listen to Frodo.

Dart allowes them to escape and basically saves their life. Gollum ends up being crucial to the destruction of the ring and basically saves Frodo. You see it. When they closed the gate, dart died. After the ring was destroyed, gollum died.

Nancy, who grew up too fast

(Look at this cute fanart of Nancy as Frodo and Robin as Sam)

Superficially, Nancy can be seen as Éowyn. Strong female characters who handles a weapon (sword / gun), and who are remembered by their scenes using said weapon, but who are actually much more complex that people give them credit for. Éowyn is depressed, and she feels stuck. She doesn’t want to be stuck in her life, doesn’t want to die without fighting, stuck in a castle, she wants to make her choice, and have autonomy. She doesn’t want to be like the women that came before her (which is not to say she doesn’t want to be a woman, she just wants to have the same freedom as a man). Nancy is also depressed, and she doesn’t want to be stuck in a loveless picket fence marriage, like her mother. Éowyn suffers from misogyny, so does Nancy. Éowyn ends up with mr nice guy Faramir. Nancy ends up with mr nice guy Jonathan.

Nancy is also similar to Frodo, but in a different way that will or max are. Theirs are more obvious parallels, while Nancy’s are a little more abstract. Frodo decided to take the ring to Mordor, was willing to face the challenge to do the right thing. That’s something Nancy would definitely do.

Nancy goes from normal carefree teenage girl to a traumatized woman with the burden of saving the world, a survivors guilt bigger than herself and the need to save everyone, no longer the same girl she was before. Same with Frodo!! He goes from a normal carefree hobbit to a traumatized hobbit with the burden of saving the world and guilt over claiming the ring at the last minute, no longer the hobbit he was before.

Nancy is also the leader, taking care of the kids, making the plans, shooting with her guns. Frodo is not the leader, but yknow what he is? Scared, normal, average, and also vital. Nancy is the same. Scared, normal, average, and very important. Nancy doesn’t have superpowers nor any kind of experience in battle or fights (like for example Hopper who is a war vet). And yet everyone turns to her. Just like how everyone counts on Frodo to destroy the ring so they can succeed in saving middle earth, everyone is always counting on Nancy, although neither Frodo nor Nancy have any kind of special ability or experience that makes them different to the others.

Nancy is also paralleled to Sam, believe it or not, specially since mike is Frodo. “What are you talking about? Their relationship is nothing like Sam and Frodo’s, the wheeler siblings are famously dysfunctional!” 100% agree, the wheeler siblings have everything but a perfect relationship, however there do is one singular scene (one. Seriously just one) that sets this parallel.

Vecna showing Nancy the future. What does that remind you of? Because I know what it reminds me of, and that is Galadriel showing Sam and Frodo the future through her mirror. Vecna showed Nancy glimpses, not the full picture, not the full scene, just tiny moments without context. Same thing Galadriel did to Sam and Frodo.

“Oh but why Sam? Nancy is already paralleled to Frodo” true again, except what did Frodo see in the mirror? The sea. That was his future, no one else’s, and it was a good future. He didn’t understand it yet, but Galadriel’s mirror showed him finding peace in the future (Frodo goes to Valinor at the end of rotk to find peace and healing).

What did the mirror show SAM, though? The scourning of the shire (Hawkins after Vecna won), his father being forced to leave the shire (whatever he saw happening to Karen and Holly), Frodo “dead” after being attacked by shelob (Mike — except Frodo wasn’t dead, and Sam didn’t interpret this vision correctly at first since he had no context. He thought Frodo was sleeping, and then when Frodo got attacked though “this is what the vision meant! He’s dead not asleep!” but both times he was wrong. I think the same will happen to Nancy, she might have seen mike “dead” but it will be something else), and him running to save Frodo (didn’t understand this one at first aswell). All the visions become true though, although they were different to what the characters guessed. Interested on the “creature with a gaping mouth”, will it be another incorrectly guessed vision, or will it be truly a creature with a gaping mouth?

When it comes to Nancy, saying “oh she’s similar to this character” is complicated, at least to me. Because Nancy is such a “her” character, she’s so herself, she’s one of her best female characters I’ve seen in media, super complex and interesting, despite the fandoms obsession with reducing her to a boring love triangle. The duffers said that they got inspired by the breakfast club for the creation of Nancy’s, Jonathan’s, and Steve’s characters, so it’s not like her lotr parallels are huge. In fact, maybe the duffers weren’t thinking about any of this and I’m overthinking. But anyway I just love Nancy.

Robin, “I cracked the code”

Robin gives me so so so many merry vibes. They are both even misinterpreted in the same way! People think merry is just haha dumb comedic relief, same with robin, but they are both super interesting characters!

Merry is so smart, like, genuinely, he knew about the ring (which Bilbo kept a secret to everyone but Frodo and Gandalf for YEARS AND YEARS) before anyone else, just by observing him. He’s the mastermind behind it all, he grabs pippin, Sam, and fatty and gets them to gather information about Frodo (who HE noticed was acting strange and might be about to leave the shire). He does all the planning to let them leave the shire as quickly and silently as they could. Merry focuses on the “speak friend and enter” part written above the doors of Moira. It is Gandalf who figures it out, but from the first second it’s merry who notices it above the rest of the text, and finds it weird. It’s thanks to merry pointing it out, that Gandalf begins thinking about it. Merry is super observant!! Just like Robin being the one to figure out music helps against Vecna, or cracking the Russian code or almost always being right.

Merry doesn’t want to be left behind in Rohan while his friends are fighting the war (steve and nancy going to the mothergate and leaving robin and Eddie alone on the boat) so he just sneaks with éowyn to the war even tho he’s super scared (robin diving right after nancy).

Strategy. Organized genius.

Rambling about the same topic for paragraphs. It’s literally canon that all that could be discovered about pipe-weed in antiquity was put together by him. Same with robin rambling. Both into “weird” things (like, robin knows several languages and is very into old films and old books and merry is into maps and boats, which hobbits aren’t usually interested in). Also both can be seen as neurodivergent (by those with eyes to see it). (Same with Frodo and Bilbo)

They have funny scenes, of course, but they have much more to them!

Erica, child soldier

I think erica might be similar pippin. “Erica would absolutely destroy pippin wdym” I mean yeah but think about it. This character who originally doesn’t really have much of a role and is just the family of one of our main characters (s2 Erica, pippin at the beginning of the fellowship) and who you could say is just there for laughs cause they’re funny, but who slowly gets a bigger role and becomes a member of the team and an important member too, helping to save the world. Also pippin is the youngest out of the fellowship, he’s not even an adult yet. Erica can amuse the viewer like pippin does (but in completely different ways, pippin by being “dumb” (again, he’s a literal teenager thrown into horrors he literally couldn’t imagine), erica by her amazing comebacks) but she’s also an important member of the team, just like pippin.

She’s not aware of the real danger until s4. I mean, in s3 she basically risked her life and her only condition was “free ice cream forever”. While stuck in the elevator, she says her mom will be mad at Steve and Robin for endangering her and making her miss her uncle’s birthday. It’s steve who brings her to reality, telling her that if they are killed in a Russian elevator, her mom wouldn’t find them anyway. Erica is taken aback by this, and for the first time, she’s beginning to see the actual danger.

She also has “dumb” funny moments that sound like something pippin could perfectly well say (like when she said they should drink the weird green liquid they found. Like obviously not erica wtf. Reminds me of movie!Pippin eating three lembas breads without even knowing what they were before eating them). But we also see later in the season her calculating maths in her head super fast and well, and Dustin lovingly calls her a nerd. We see that’s she’s smart! Pippin is also smart, people just don’t acknowledge it. Good pippin post.

Eddie, the hero

(Cute fanart of Eddie and Dustin as lotr characters)

Now, I’m not really into Eddie’s character, so if there are any more similarities that I’ve missed and a diehard fan noticed, please let me know. Eddie’s lotr parallels are so easy to see. Movie!Aragorn saying “for Frodo” and Eddie saying “this is for you, Chrissy” (which then puts Chrissy on Frodo’s position, Chrissy who got vecna’d. Mike/Chrissy parallels here, here, and here. Also Will/Chrissy parallels here).

Also the fact that all the characters paralleled to Frodo in one way or another (Chrissy, Max, Nancy, El) got vecna’d (about El, does mike’s monologue scene count as getting vecna’d? Even if not, she has scenes talking to him and such so I would add her aswell) makes me scared and excited for the other characters paralleled to Frodo (Will, Mike, and Dustin. Mike is so getting vecna’d, Will might already be in a trance by the end of s4, and Dustin is so getting vecna’d aswell).

Eddie saying “I say you’re asking me to follow you into Mordor, which, if I’m totally straight with you, I think is a really bad idea… but the shire, the shire is burning. So Mordor it is” vs Aragorn saying “I would have guided Frodo to Mordor and gone with him to the end” (or the movie version, “I would have gone with you to the end, into the very fires of Mordor”).

Eddie is also boromir. Boromir who died a hero, protecting pippin and merry (“the little ones”. While merry was an adult, pippin was a teenager, and they were technically more little (stature) than Boromir. Just like Dustin, max, Lucas etc being younger than Eddie, and him dying to save them [and all of Hawkins]). Also the scene with Dustin and Eddie playing/training in a field, parallel to the movie scenes with boromir playing/training with merry and pippin in a field. Which puts Dustin in their roles. I can see Dustin as merry, great plans, smart, scared, funny, definitely neurodivergent, etc. This is also tied to this other parallel. Théoden’s death scene.

(In the book, it is merry the one hearing Théoden’s last words and last seeing him alive, in the movie it’s changed to Éowyn. But not to worry, cause Dustin fits both of these roles).

On The Two Towers movie, there’s a scene with king Théoden crying because his son died. At the end of s4, when Dustin confirms to Wayne that Eddie died, he cries in a scene that is shot more or less the same way.

Théodred (Théoden’s son) died in battle, and lived only long enough to say his last words. Eddie died n battle, and lived only long enough to say his last words.

“I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed.” (Théoden) vs “Boromir, you fought bravely. You have kept your honor.” (Aragorn @ Boromir) vs “I didn’t run away this time, right?” (Eddie)

Henry (001)

Also not necessarily into Henry’s character. I mean, the creels murders are super interesting (there’s def more that meets the eye) and so are the things we learn about him through NINA (which Brenner definitely manipulated. You cannot tell me Brenner is not making Henry look extra bad there. Which is not to say I defend him, but like c’mon Brenner would obviously do that), but I don’t know much about him aside from the obvious.

(When he found the mind flayer) “I found the most extraordinary thing of all. Something that would change everything. I saw a means to realize my potential.”

Remember this line, it’s important. Like, seriously.

Henry is gollum but he’s also sauron. The mind flayer is the one ring but it’s also Melkor (Morgoth).

Henry/Sauron created the one ring but Henry/Gollum is also consumed by it. The mind flayer/melkor is stronger that Henry/sauron, and existed before Henry/sauron, but the mind flayer/one ring was also created by Henry/sauron.

Woah, what a headache. Let’s go slowly.

Henry’s sauron-coding

Sauron’s original name was Mairon. Vecna’s original name was Henry.

“Mairon saw in Melkor the will and power that would help him achieve his personal ends quicker than if he pursued them alone.” So Henry finding the mind flayer?

Melkor is an Ainur, basically a god, an “eternal spirit”. Not the highest god (that’s Ilúvatar) but one of his “children” (listen the silmarillion is complicated ok). He turns evil unlike his siblings, destroys what they create, etc. And he has other beings that work for him and support his evil deeds, one of them being Sauron/Mairon.

I don’t think it is Henry who works for the mind flayer, I think he controls the mind flayer. However in the last shadow (correct me if wrong, I haven’t seen the play, just read summaries) it says that Henry was possessed with the mind flayer as a kid and that’s how he developed his powers (more on that later). So you could say Henry begins by “working” for the mind flayer (who, for example, made him kill animals) but then after arriving at dimension x as an adult, decided he could use the mind flayer for his own gain.

Sauron began by working for Melkor, and then time later, created the one ring. Henry begins possessed by the mind flayer, but years laters decides to mold him into something useful for him, a mean to realize “his potential”.

The mindflayer is the ring but also Melkor apparently. Duffers explain yourselves.

About sauron, he is also described as a sorcerer once (remember s5 ep4 “Sorcerer”) in the fellowship, and the number one is repeatedly mentioned regarding him. He created the one ring, he has been called the “black one”, the “one enemy”, the “nameless one”. Also “the shadow” (the first shadow)

Sauron also used to be blonde.

“Sauron's physical manifestation was destroyed in the ruin of Númenor. As a Maia, his spirit returned to Middle-earth, though he was no longer able to take the fair form he had once had.”

Henry’s gollum-coding

“One of Brenner's fellow scientists defected and stole key technology and transported it to a Nevadan cave. At this time, a very young Henry and the Creels lived nearby, in Rachel, Nevada. While exploring the Nevadan caves and playing with a spyglass, Henry stumbled across the stolen technology when it unexpectedly activated, transporting him and the defecting scientist to Dimension X.”

“In Dimension X, Henry was exposed to the influence of the shadowy entity. Though Henry returned home after 12 hours, he now possessed a unique blood type and had a changed personality. Brenner was later able to track Henry down thanks to Henry dropping his spyglass in the caves.”

Henry got possessed in a cave. Gollum lived on a cave, and Bilbo finds the ring (and steals it from gollum) on a cave. Technically bilbo-coding, for a tiny second.

“Henry stumbled across pieces of scientific equipment stolen from the Nevada Experiment. The equipment unexpectedly activated; Henry and the scientist who stole the equipment were temporarily transported to Dimension X, killing the scientist in the process.” Henry and someone else being there while the equipment activated, Gollum (Sméagol) and Déagol stumbling across the ring. Déagol stealing the ring, the scientist having been to one to steal the equipment. Déagol got almost inmediately murdered by Sméagol (for the ring). The equipment killed the scientist in the process. Sméagol ended up with the ring, Henry ended up possessed.

“I found the most extraordinary thing of all. Something that would change everything. I saw a means to realize my potential” is SO like if he just found the one ring. The ring tempts you, tells you that if you use it you will be powerful and will accomplish your desires, no matter if they are to save the world or destroy it. It says that it’ll give you the power to manage it, corrupts you, but it’s all a lie.

Henry has been fully corrupted, even his physical body changing (I mean, because of the burns but like, still a similarity) and cannot be saved. He’s gollum but he’s the ring (since the mind flayer is the ring, and he controls the mind flayer) at the same time, makes me a bit crazy.

The ring gave gollum, Bilbo, and Frodo the power to turn invisible. The mind flayer’s possession made Henry have powers, all the Will has powers theories…

Henry being 001 and the ring being the one ring is just so (x)

Also the many parallels between Will and Henry, how they’re so similar. Because Frodo and Gollum are extremely paralleled and similar!! Except Frodo fears becoming Gollum just like how Will fears becoming the abuser, the predator. But also Frodo having sympathy for Gollum cause he understands, + my theory of Will having a tiny bit of sympathy for Vecna in s5, cause he can literally feel what he feels, and he’ll probably get a Vecna vision like “oh Will we’re alike you and I join me blah blah blah make them pay and let’s get our vengeance blah blah blah”. Will won’t listen to him obviously that’s the difference between Gollum (who had no one) falling fully corrupted to the ring vs Frodo (who had Sam) only falling corrupted at the very end. Smth smth Will has a support system and doesn’t choose violence and all that.

Also

“Fëanor was possessed of exceptional oratory skill, and could persuade virtually anyone through speechcraft. He also was known to have been restless, exploring as much of Aman as he could and constantly crafting new works. One of these works was believed to have been the palantíri.”

“Fëanor quickly became the most prominent of the rebellious Ñoldor” (a group of elves)

“Despite Melkor having been the true root of the Ñoldor's unrest, Fëanor's crime had been of his own making, and for this the Valar exiled him for twelve years time from Tirion.”

Reminds me a bit of everything going on with Henry…

“Melkor stole away to Avathar in the south of Aman. There he discovered the evil spider-like creature Ungoliant and secured her as an ally, promising to sate her unrelenting hunger in return for her aid.”

Some things happened and they fought, and Ungoliant tried to strangle him. She didn’t get to, and after Balrogs came, had to run away. Some say she died from starvation. Maybe the mind flayer turning against Vecna in s5?

Thorin? I mean, Thorin sets to destroy Smaug, but ends up turning just like him because he’s affected by gold-sickness. Kinda like how Henry is super mad at Brenner and everyone and plans to “reshape” the world so that the “mindless play” stops (I think? I never really got his intentions), so like, technically in his head he probably thinks he’s doing good (??) but like, obviously he isn’t, he’s murdering teenagers and kids for no reason. Substitutes one villain for another.

Henry/Aragorn?? But we can see the contrast between both characters. I mean, Aragorn was on some kind of self-imposed exile, Henry was exiled from earth (El vanished him into dimension x), Aragorn became king (ruler) of Gondor, Henry became some kind of ruler of the upside down. Aragorn is good and noble and rightful heir, Henry is, well, evil.

I feel like Henry stans are gonna come yell at me I’m terrified

Hopper, who died and came back

Hopper is also a lot like Gandalf. Adult (male) who while technically is not a parent to any of the characters but he do is a paternal figure (him adopting el, him dating Joyce so becoming a kind of paternal figure to Jonathan and Will). I wouldn’t necessarily call Gandalf a paternal figure, but he do is this older “man” that the characters go to for help and who always helps the characters, and who has known Bilbo and Frodo since they were young (very basic description of Gandalf, I know). Also yknow Gandalf died but then came back, turns out he didn’t actually die. Hopper did the same. Gandalf “died” while saving the fellowship. Hopper “died” while saving everyone.

The scene of him meeting with el again in s4 is similar to Gandalf meeting with Frodo again in return of the king.

Bob Newby, superhero

Bob is played by Sean Astin, who played Sam in the lotr movies.

Bob Newby, superhero vs Samwise the stouthearted (or Samwise the brave in the movies)

I see him as Radagast tbh

“Radagast has a strong affinity for—and relationship with—wild animals.” You know what my first thought was? Lonnie (“he made me kill a rabbit”). Who’s basically Lonnie’s opposite? Bob. (Sure, Joyce could also be, having been the parent who stuck around and who loves her kids deeply and actually cares and isn’t abusive, but when talking about dads, it’s Bob. Could also be hopper, but I think radagast is Bob). I’ll explain.

“His role in Tolkien's writings is so slight that it has been described as a plot device.” Bob, I mean, he appears in just one season to kinda further the plot and then dies. He was also supposed to die in the third episode of s2, originally.

“Radagast was unwittingly used by Saruman to lure Gandalf to his tower of Orthanc, where Gandalf was captured”. Bob telling Will to fight the mind flayer and that causing Will to get possessed. “Fortuitously, Radagast also helped rescue him by sending Gwaihir the eagle to Orthanc with news of the movements of Sauron's forces.” Bob eventually saving Will and everyone.

“Radagast is "the friend of all birds and beasts,” Bob basically being the perfect stepdad, being super nice and caring. “He innocently helps Saruman to assemble "a great host of spies”, again, unknowingly and unwillingly causing Will to get possessed, which made Will the spy.

Mirkwood, (where Cornwallis and Kerley meet)

Oh boy talk to me about Mirkwood in stranger things.

Mirkwood is a real road, named by the party as “Mirkwood”. Mirkwood is a forest that appears in the hobbit, and from where Legolas (member of the fellowship of the ring in lotr) comes from (he’s the prince of Mirkwood). What’s interesting about Mirkwood regarding stranger things, you might ask. I ask a better question. What is not interesting about Mirkwood regarding stranger things.

That road is the road where Will was on when he was going home in s1, where he saw whatever it is that took him. “It is in close proximity to both the Byers house and the Harrington house, with only the forest separating them”, oh ok, not suspicious at all. Will got taken at his house (which is close to Mirkwood) and Barb got taken at Steve’s house (which is close to Mirkwood). Nothing to see here, just a normal ass road. Mirkwood is also where they found El, where Nancy found her tree gate (I think, not super sure on this one), where the police found Will’s bike, and also, oh right, it’s next to the lab. Can’t add a map here (curse tumblr’s image limit) but look it up. I think you can see it in ep1, right? Like when will is on his bike and passes a sign that says smth about the lab.

Next to Mirkwood are the woods, where castle byers is, and where lots of things happened over the series in general. The woods are pretty connected to the upside down, the gates are either in the woods or on places next to the woods, lots of characters spend time in the woods since they live next to them, for some reason, etc.

Before beginning to talk about Mirkwood (lotr), what do we know about the upside down (st)?

Well, we know it wasn’t always supposed to look like that, rather it’s original design was very green and even with light. Eventually the duffers decided for the upside down we know now. We also know that before it was the upside down, it was dimension x, a place WIDLY different to the upside down we know now. We know the upside down isn’t necessarily evil (as seen by dart, a creature from it who shows the difference between nature and nurture), that it’s just a neutral dimension, simply controlled by an evil man (but it hasn’t been like this always). Ok, now that that’s clear, what about Mirkwood (lotr)?

“The area had been called Greenwood the Great until around the year TA 1050, when the shadow of the Dark Lord Sauron fell upon it, and Men began to call it Mirkwood, or Taur-nu-Fuin and Taur-e. Ndaedelos in the Sindarin tongue. From then on, The southern part of Mirkwood became a haunted place inhabited by many dark and savage things. Sauron, or the 'Necromancer' as he disguised himself. established himself at the hill-fortress of Dol Guldur, an old Elven fortress in the forest's southern region, and drove Thranduil and his people ever northward.”

Oh okay, so the upside down is Mirkwood fr. Alright. There’s also the fact that Mirkwood is the home of the children of Ungoliant (aka, huge spiders that tried to eat thorin’s company) and we know everything going on with spiders and Vecna and the mind flayer etc.

Also this s5 theory, probably my favorite theory ever.

Suspicious Minds, (Terry and Andrew)

Suspicious Minds is a half-canon book (some say it’s canon, others that it isn’t), focusing on Terry (Jane’s mom) and her time at the lab. Andrew Rich is her boyfriend at the time, and father of Jane.

I really need to reread Suspicious Minds if I’m gonna talk about it cause I read it back in 2019 during summer holidays and barely remember anything. However you know what I found out? The many lotr references in the book. It was like a wonderful lake appeared in front of my while I was at the desert. Couldn’t believe my eyes. Oh duffers why me.

Andrew was a big lotr fan and, like any nerd, forced Terry into reading the books. Let’s get to it. Some of the lotr references in the book:

“Andrew had fallen in love with The Lord of the Rings on the van ride to New York and back, and then presented her with his battered copy of the first book when he returned. The cover featured a wizard in flowing yellow robes with a long white beard on a mountaintop”. A wizard with yellow robes. William Byers what are you doing here??

-

"It would've been a lot easier for the hobbits to stay in the Shire," she told him when he opened the door. "But they don't, do they? Frodo ends up with the ring and they leave with it."

"I knew you'd like it," he said, beaming at her and dropping a kiss on her cheek. "Let me know when you're ready for the next one. Where are you?"

"Still early. The hobbits may be the ones without magic, but I can feel how it's going.”

"You can skip the Tom Bombadil/Goldberry section if you want. It's a little much.”

"Now there's no way I'm skipping it." She paused. "But did you just admit this book isn't perfect in every way?"

And what’s funnier and insane is that they are Sam and Frodo shippers. They constantly compare themselves to Sam and Frodo. They are dating. They are a heterosexual couple who saw 2 gay hobbits and went: “they’re just like us fr”. Honestly, stan.

“Terry had bare feet with brown fur glued on, and wore rolled-up trousers and an old shirt. Her hair was arranged in tight curls, pulled aside to reveal pointy wax ears.

"Who are you supposed to be?" Alice asked, puzzled.

Andrew slid up to Terry's side, good looks muted only slightly by his own ridiculous curls and similar costume. He had fur glued to the top of his hand.

"She's Frodo, and I'm Samwise Gamgee. From my favorite books. I let Terry pick, and she made me the sidekick. But I don't mind being her sidekick.”

Terry shrugged. "I like Sam."

"And I like Frodo. Let me get you a drink."

-

"Don't do that," Andrew said, sitting up against the headboard. "Sometimes even Frodo and Sam have to have tough conversations.”

-

“I want you to live your life while I'm gone—think of me sometimes. I'll be dreaming of you and settling down in the Shire. No Grey Havens for us.”

UGHHH

Specially the last paragraph. It’s from a postcard Andrew sent Terry.

I cannot tell you ANYTHING about their relationship, again, desperately need to reread.

However Sam and Frodo are depicted as a romantic relationship. They are compared to a canon romantic relationship. Literally. Not by parallels like lumax, no, genuinely, literally, explicitly compared.

While there are characters who are compared to Sam and Frodo during some moments (Dustin and mike over dart, Nancy seeing the future vision of mike) and who’s relationship is definitely not romantic, it’s interesting to see how two canon couples have been compared to them. And then we have byler, who while not canon yet parallel both their relationship and the characters separately more than any other characters do…

That last paragraph? The postcard? When I read it I didn’t understand if he was saying “I’ll be dreaming of you while I settle down in the shire” or “I’ll be dreaming of you and of settling down in the shire (with you)” so I went to my copy, which is the spanish translation, and it’s the second one. Sam and Frodo settling down in the shire together… no mention of Rosie… No grey havens for us… All that combined with the duffers love for trope subversion and making things not be how they seem and so on, they are basically saying that Sam and Frodo have a happy ending together in the shire in stranger things (which basically tells us lumax endgame and byler endgame).

+ (some extra stuff)

“The transformation of the Shire from rural idyll to industrial wasteland heavily parallels Tolkien's own views of the destruction of the English countryside by the steady creep of industrialisation” + Smaug (the dragon they are set to kill in the hobbit) has lots and lots of money for the sake of having money. Doesn’t spend it, just hoards it because he’s greedy + Thorin dealing with gold-sickness, aka, wanting hoard as all the gold he took from Smaug, and not spend it or share it (just like Smaug did, so he sets to destroy Smaug just to turn just like him) (Smth smth, the mind flayer as capitalism)

-

Quoting Eddie, the shire is burning. The upside down arrived at Hawkins. At first, the upside down and the supernatural was located in the lab and in the upside down. It didn’t touch Hawkins. Except now it did, and things get dirty, the scourning of the shire, the shire is burning. So Mordor it is. Also, birthdaygate. March 22, Will’s birthday. Yknow what else is March 22? The day Sam and Frodo left the road and headed towards mount doom.

-

Also Nell Fisher who will play Holly in s5 acted alongside Elijah Wood (Frodo’s actor) in a movie (bookworm). (This is a complete coincidence, I know, but wanted to mention it)

-

Frodo’s birthday (and Bilbo’s) is also the 22th. 22th of September, not March, but the 22th. Also there’s 7 months between March and September (March - April - May - June - July - August - September) and (September- October- November - December- January - February- March). It was a seven.

-

Soteria is paralleled to the one ring, which is strange because soteria inhibits powers, while the ring gives you powers (hobbits turns invisible, extended lifespan, etc). Henry also said that soteria tracks your movements, and if he was right about that, it’s a similarity with the one ring, which when put on, allowed sauron to know someone had it.

-

The one ring was a physical object, you could put it on, touch it, destroy it. The mind flayer is not a physical object, and Vecna is a person (?). Not so easy to destroy. You could destroy the one ring by throwing it into the fire of Mordor, and you could take the mind flayer out of Will with heat (he likes it cold). So, can you kill the mind flayer by burning it? Following this thought pattern, yes.

At the end of s4 Nancy and robin burned Vecna and it probably hurt but he’s not dead. So either it doesn’t work or they need a much bigger fire. Well, not all fire worked with the one ring, it had to be the fire of Mordor. Now the question is, what is Mordor in stranger things? Because the upside down is Mirkwood. Maybe vecna’s weird red dimension (like where max was during the running up that hill sequence). Is that the upside down too or is it different? It looks different, cause it’s mental. The upside down is somewhere you can physically enter and leave, vecna’s red dimension is mental. Maybe Vecna/the mind flayer whatever can only be burned there. Or maybe the upside down is both Mirkwood and Mordor.

Idk it’s all so confusing. All I know is that a certain someone who has already cast fireball twice on dnd might be “the cure”…

-

-

If you made it here you deserve an applause cause DAMN this got long.

-

Conclusion:

The duffers are sam/frodo shippers. They’re also insane and I desperately need to hear them infodump

[honey-ink]

Hoarah Loux may have been a part of a Dancing Lion?

So DLC spoilers under the cut of course, but I was once again theorizing with @dan-from-onami about base game and DLX connections- more specifically Hoarah Loux/Godfrey and their origin!

So I think Godfrey/ Hoarah Loux may have come from the land of shadows and might have been a Hornsent without horns as well as a Dancing lion- specifically the back of the dancing lion. This might explain a few things from his children/origin/allies/why Marika casted him away. This might explain why Morgott and Mohg have their horns, but also lose them upon death. This might also explain why if Godwyn was born with fish features, it was also a crucible features without Marika knowing since she's only used to horns, wings and tails.

Now for origin I think Godfrey is a more domesticated version of what Marika wants for a lord, and that's why he wears armor and wields an axe. However, I think in the past as Hoarah Loux he might have escaped Messmers/Marikas genocide and abandoned the front half of the lion or escaped somehow before joining Marika and without her knowing his origins since he doesn't have horns. This would explain why in his boss fight (ESPECIALLY AS HOARAH LOUX) both him and the dancing lion are constantly jumping and using no weapons to attack (probably dried leaf arts? Or another form of art), In the frost phase of the dancing lion the back dancer also uses similar moves like horahfrost stomp (will link videos to compare because they are weirdly similar?). This might also explain why Serosh is actually a lion instead of the typical wolf/canine shadow like Blaidd and Maliketh.

Divine Dancing Lion Boss Fight

Godfrey/ Horah Loux Boss Fight

This probably also explains why the crucible knights were specifically Godfrey's knights/ why he chose them to be his knights, and chances are once Marika found out or at least clued in that Godfrey was probably Horsent was the real reason why she cast him and his men away because she didn't want to risk anything happening to the golden order. That would also explain why in our own character creation we can be any race or class we want, but no matter what we are tarnished because we once worked in allegiance with Godfrey/Hoarah Loux.

@dan-from-onami brought up a good point though because he didn't know how much he could believe Hoarah Loux is a Hornsent in particular because Marika at the first sight of any omen-hood will either murder them or boot them into the sewers- which makes a lot of sense now given her past. That's when I went back into the game and realized that in the intro Hoarah Loux is- like us- waking up from death. and in that cutscene he is chained up and impaled.

I'm also not sure if the Badlands and the Realm of Shadow are different, or if it might just be a situation where sometimes the Realm of Shadow is called the "Badlands" due to it's unwelcoming nature. A bit of a long rant haha but I never realized until now that we only know Godfrey/ Hoarah Loux as First Elden Lord and Chieftain Of The Bad Lands, but we don't really know what those titles entail for him or the rest of his story outside of the Lands Between.

[miirshroom]

Thinking about how Thiollier gets invited to the final battle against Miquella because his existence is fanfiction personified.

Like, St. Trina and Miquella being the same being was an intriguing part of their character. People theory crafted about this for 2 years. And then Miquella abandoned the sweet dream of St. Trina after Mohg's bloody nightmare was forced upon him, but Thiollier still believed. Thiollier's attachment to St. Trina is so strong that he rejects Miquella at her request. And if not for that request, Thiollier would linger forever in the velvety dream of lost potential - shut off from the rest of what the Shadowlands has to offer.

The mechanics of Elden Ring do not allow the character of Miquella to live up to the theorizing. The archetypical role of Miquella is the idealist whose dream is crushed by reality, which could already be seen by the ominous way that the bloody cocoon was staged in the base game. A game can only be coded to do so much, and with Elden Ring there is no such thing as a post-game utopia where you get to hang out with all of your NPC buddies and rebuild civilization. Your options are to either quit the game world or start another loop. Adding pacifism functionality is beyond the scope of the Lands Between, even as a DLC.

It's a game where you fight and kill enemies, which is why Ansbach is the other NPC invited to that last fight. They are two extremes of a spectrum. Thiollier embodies the point of view of rejecting the game version of Miquella and making your own "fix-it" alternative universe through imagined narrative content. Ansbach embodies the point of view of rejecting the mechanical content that FromSoftware has crafted and instead prolonging the experience of the game in other ways - such as finding the PVP of the Bloody Fingers more engaging and balanced than repeating the boss fights.

Altogether, a world for "not for gods, but for men" is to ignore the complex puzzle box story actually crafted by FromSoftware in favour of content generated by fellow players. Not bad in moderation, but also a "show don't tell" case study on how using emotion rather than logic in interpreting complex ideas is a magnet for outrage peddlers (Ansbach), and toxic infighting (Thiollier).

[bellepeppergirl]

Mohg the Empyrean

I've mentioned this once before in a previous post, but I'm in the mood to go more in-depth with the idea, and I believe that Mohg is an Empyrean.

Mohg spent his entire life in the sewers due to Marika's oppressive rule over the Lands Between, which scorned those born with horns, who they deemed as "Omens." The "omen" in question was, in my belief, likely one of the Hornsent, Marika's enemy's, return. In order to not allow this return to happen, anything that reminded Marika of the Hornsent or the Crucible was punished; Misbegotten were enslaved, Omen were massacred or had their horns removed, and royal Omen were confined to the sewers for their entire life. This included Marika's own children, Morgott and Mohg.

Now, most of Marika's direct offspring seem to be Empyreans; Miquella and Malenia are confirmed to be Empyreans, Melina seems to hold the power of Destined Death, and Messmer has the power of the Fell God within him. We can assume Godwynn was also likely an Empyrean and, in a way, he sort of did ascend into godhood by becoming the Prince of Death, though this could be considered coincidental.

Onto Morgott and Mohg, while I'm not sure if anything could possibly tie Morgott into being an Empyrean, Mohg himself seems to have Empyrean traits. For starters, Empyreans all seem to have things going on with their eyes.

Malenia is entirely blind, with the Outer God of Rot's influence having taken her eye, leaving only disgusting and decayed flesh where they used to be.

Ranni's right eye is sealed, and while we have not seen her original form, only the doll form she took after sacrificing her flesh, I am willing to assume that her original form was in a similar state.

Melina also has a sealed eye, this time on her left side. When Melina opens that eye during the Frenzied Flame ending, we see a deep purple iris. It seems she inherited the power of the Outer God of Death, which was possibly the Deathbird Mother.

Messmer is in a similar state to both Melina and Malenia. He seems to be entirely blind, with one eye sealed and the other containing what appears to be a glass eye given to him by his mother. Behind this glass eye, we see a strange abyss. Messmer also seems to have been blessed with an Outer God's power, that being the Fell God's and possibly even the Base Serpent's, if we were to consider that being to also be an Outer God.

Miquella and St. Trina, another confirmed Empyrean, is never seen to open their eyes. This could indicate that they are also blind, or hiding some form of Outer God-blessed eyes.

Mohg can be seen with a horn piercing his right eye. On top of that, we know he came into contact with a confirmed Outer God, that being the Formless Mother, who gave him the power of Bloodflame and spurred on his desire to start his own dynasty.

Initially, this theory of Mohg being an Empyrean could have been debunked because, if he was an Empyrean, why would he need Miquella? But with the reveals from the DLC, this potential debunking has itself been debunked, as we now know that Miquella had been controlling Mohg the entire time so that he could use the Omen's remains to resurrect Radahn and make him his consort so that Miquella could bring about his own age.

That being said, I don't think we can entirely throw out the "Mohg needing an Empyrean" thing, because I believe that itself now also serves as evidence that Mohg is an Empyrean. With us being led to believe that Mohg wanted a consort that was an Empyrean he could corrupt for his own age, it seems like this was Miquella's own plan being leaked out.

Miquella wanted an Empyrean, Mohg, that he could corrupt by using their body to remake Radahn, who was not an Empyrean initially, to create a consort for Miquella's new age. Having two Empyreans creating a new age would ensure their own power for likely much longer than having only one.

Mohg himself seems to also have wanted to bring his own age. In the DLC, we can find more information about the Formless Mother. Namely, we learn of the Bloodfiends. The Bloodfiends were once, and debatably still are, an oppressed tribe that came into contact with the Formless Mother. They began to worship her and were slowly warped into the creatures they are today and carry her power.

Similarly, Mohg is an Omen; another oppressed group that was massacred and locked away. I think the Formless Mother favors the oppressed. Whether this is because she cares about them or just thinks it's funny to shake things up by giving the oppressed power, I can't say, but regardless, her giving them power allows for them to fight for their rights and a new age.

Throughout Mohgwynn Palace, we can find a lot of Albinaurics. The Albinaurics are another group that is oppressed thanks to them being artificial, and thus not considered holy since they bear no connection to the Erdtree. But perhaps, under Mohg and the Formless Mother's rule, they could find or create a new world where they are not treated poorly, tortured, or killed for the heinous crime of simply existing. The Albinaurics here, and the Sanguine Nobles we meet, also seem to be changing into new beings, similar to how the Bloodfiends did, as they can be seen covered in or growing horns.

So yes; I believe Mohg was an Empyrean. He is the child of Marika, and Empyrean who has birthed numerous Empyreans herself, has a similar eye situation to other confirmed or quasi-confirmed Empyreans, and is confirmed to have the power and blessing of an Outer God with the goals and capability of bringing about a new age. Miquella then took his body to make Radahn and Empyrean so they could create the Unalloyed Age.

[bri-the-nautilus]

So consensus seems to be that the golden crescent sign above the DLC graces is Miquella's Great Rune. It's been known for a while that the Omen Twins' runes complete each other, and I was wondering if that convention holds true for the other set of demigod twins.

Upper left is Morgott and Mohg's runes overlapping. Center is Malenia's rune with two different versions of how Miquella's could fit into it.

[gobbogoo]

Hey... is Zorayas/Rya the daughter of the Winged Serpent??

According to the Winged Serpent Helm:

"It is a wise friend which keeps the base serpent at bay and holds its power in check."

I don't know about you, but that describes Rya to a tee. She's like this kindly counterbalance within Volcano Manor; inexplicably wholesome, and capable of drawing kindness from people like Lady Tanith and EVEN PATCHES. (He's watching over her from afar in Liurnia, and directs you to her to help her.)

We all assumed Rya was born from the Blasphemous Serpent, but it has grey scales and yellow eyes. Indeed, it always confused me why she had a different colour-scheme than the other man-serpents, why she alone was considered special among them, and why she was so darn NICE compared to them. Perhaps Lady Tanith and Rykard intended for Rya to one day rein in the Blasphemous Serpent after it had served its purpose?

[magesforthedas]

Veilguard Faction Ages:

Okay, join me on another “it’s 3am and I should be sleeping, but I couldn’t until I’d thoroughly researched this line of thought!” Minor spoilers for early VG ahead.

Antaam

The Antaam invade Tevinter around 9:44/9:45 Dragon, not on the orders of the Qun. The Qunari the Inquisitor meets in Trespasser are probably Antaam, though idk if it says that? So they could’ve broken away 9:43-9:44?

Edit: friendly commenter shared that there's a letter where it says that Antaam broke off because the Ben-Hassrath refused to continue the operation after the Inquisitor stopped them in Trespasser. So officially 9:44!

Shadow Dragons

The Shadow Dragons started out as the Lucerni, formed sometime between 9:41-9:44 Dragon. When Maevaris Tilani was framed for treason and the Lucerni dissolved, she took them underground and transformed the movement into the Shadow Dragons.

Maevaris says she’s been laying low since the allegations, that her title had been stripped… a Shadow Dragon Rook says they hadn’t heard that, and wouldn’t that had to have happened before the “Shadow Dragons” were even formed, and thus Rook a part of it? So that would be somewhat old news, since before Rook has been away with Varric… Rook doesn’t keep up with politics, I guess😂

Based off the VG codex entries I found (Neve’s notes), Mae was kicked from the Magisterium “over a year ago”, and based on the order of the codex, shortly after this she met Tarquin of the Shadow Dragons, and he was probably working with them then. Then or sometime after, she was recruited; How long has Neve been with the Shadow Dragons?

Best guess: 9:42ish the Lucerni were formed, after Dorian went back to Tevinter, before Trespasser. Sometime between 9:48-9:50 is when the Lucerni were dissolved and the Shadow Dragons were formed; long enough for the Lucerni to start to gain momentum, and make the opposition nervous, which is when they tried to tear it down. Rook would have left with Varric in 9:51, since Veilguard is supposed to be in 9:52 and you were with Varric for a year. Rook probably wasn’t part of the Shadow Dragons right at the start, but it could be pretty close if you take into account the letter found about Dorian reaching out to the Mercar family, who’s head of house was sympathetic to the Shadow Dragons. Rook could’ve realistically been with the group for a few years, or even just a few months, depending on when you think the Shadow Dragons were formed, and when Rook joined. Although, it would make sense that you and Neve haven’t met if she joined just before or after you left with Varric, so that would point to Maevaris being framed around 9:49-9:50.

Veil Jumpers

Bellara says the Veil Jumpers are pretty new, just since Arlathan Forest started getting even more chaotic. I can’t say exactly why, but I feel like in Dragon Age new/old terms, it could have been around for like… 5 years? That would put the date roughly 9:47 Dragon. We know Strife was spying on the Antaam after they took Ventus (Three Trees to Midnight), so around 9:44-9:45? Then later Strife and Irelin were sent to find an artifact in Arlathan Forest, which was when they discovered the magic had gone crazy (Ruins of Reality). Unfortunately, there isn’t any kind of date on that, but it just means we know more was happening before the Veil Jumpers started. So sometime between 9:47-9:50 is likely for their official start.

Lords of Fortune

The Lords of Fortune, upon actually reading my codex entries haha, were formed by Isabela and friends; she’s “been with the Lords since before we were the Lords. Back then it was just a bunch of sea raiders-“

Shathann left the Qun presumably when Taash was quite little, if they “went through a lot of spoons as a baby”. They were taken in by the Lords of Fortune, but a Lord Rook has never met Taash. This speaks to either: A. Shathann and Taash were not immediately taken in by the Lords, or B. Taash is pretty young, and only officially joined the Lords after you left (a year before VG), though Shathann would have been with them for longer.

It doesn’t sound like the Lords were around at the start of Inquisition, as you can ask Varric about her, and he says she went back to the Raiders of the Waking Sea and is calling herself an Admiral, though he doesn’t know if that’s official or a self-styled title. Isabela is a field agent for the Inquisition according to the multiplayer mode, so could she have formed the Lords after that? Either after 9:42 when the biggest battle happened, or after 9:44 when it was officially dissolved/merged with the chantry.

Also side note, Antaam vs Qunari (with notes from Shathann) by Taash, age 14; this was written after the Antaam broke from the Qun. So since that was 9:44, if the note is directly from that time Taash would be 22 in 9:52 (edited for clarity after comment!). After I realized this I found a note on the wiki that Taash is early 20’s, from a developer’s Q&A, which I then found the said Taash is the youngest, early 20’s (close to Sera), Emmerich is oldest in his early 50’s the rest are somewhere around late 20’s/early 30’s.

If Shathann left because of the Antaam splitting from the Qun, then it could make sense for the Lords to have been around just prior. However, Taash talks about the Antaam attacks and how it’s made the Rivain locals scared of them- this could either mean :

Shathann left when Taash was much younger, well before the Antaam split, so possibly around the early 9:30s? The two may have settled into Rivain well before the Lords were formed, and Shathann started working for them possibly in 9:51, since a Lord Rook doesn’t know her either.

Shathann left around early 9:30s, but started working with the Lords soon after their founding, as Antaam attacks on Rivain may have made life more difficult.

Or, less likely I’d think, Shathann left with Taash and started worked with the Lords soon after their founding, so sometime in 9:42-9:46 when Taash was a teenager. It took the Antaam a few years for their attacks to hit Rivain, which is when Taash and their mother started facing more problems.

Assuming Taash did join after Rook left, a year is a short amount of time for all the adventures you hear bits of, but with so much happening it also makes sense.

Grey Wardens

The Grey Wardens, obviously, have been around since the First Blight (Specifically, founded in -305 Ancient), so they’re 1257 years old as of 9:52.

Antivan Crows

The Crows started as an arm of the Chantry in the area around Treviso: The Chant was popularized in Antiva in 1:45 Divine, so it would have been after that. There is supposedly a fair amount of Rivaini culture in the Crows (that’s where the tradition of their tattoos comes from), and the Rivaini-born Queen of Antiva was born 4:30 Black. So it’s possible that the Crows were formed after she came to power and Rivaini culture was more mixed into Antivan, or they could have already been around and that culture was incorporated in later. So they’re potentially somewhere between 500-800 years old.

Mourn Watch

The Mourn Watch are a branch of the Mortalitasi; the Mortalitasi Order was founded by Vitus Fabria, King Caspar Pentaghast’s personal advisor (and a Tevinter mage). Caspar Pentaghast seized control of Nevarra in 2:46 Glory. The Mourn Watch may not have been established right away, and I suppose there’s no way of knowing unless they tell us; was the Mourn Watch established right away, or later, after some kind of corruption or power struggle within the Mortalitasi occurred? So the Mourn Watch is at most 706 in 5:52, potentially younger by a couple hundred years.

ALSO I’ve seen some discussion about when Veilguard takes place; there are notes in the codex dating 9:52 Dragon, so it’s that year (or later I suppose, but I don’t think so) unless we are somehow seeing notes from the future :)

TL:DR my best guesses on Faction foundings and other related dates:

-305 Ancient - The Grey Wardens are founded

1:45 Divine-5:xx Exalted (?) - The Antivan Crows are founded

2:46-2:5x Glory - The Mortalitasi are formed, along with, or sometime thereafter, the Mourn Watch

9:41 Dragon - The events of Dragon Age: Inquisition begin

9:42 Dragon - The conclusion of the event of Inquisition

9:42-9:43 Dragon - Lucerni movement is formed

9:42-9:46 Dragon - The Lords of Fortune are founded

9:44 Dragon - The events of the Trespasser DLC. The Antaam break from the Qun

9:44-9:45 Dragon - The Antaam attack Tevinter cities, including Ventus. Strife is sent to spy on the Antaam

9:47-9:50 Dragon - Arlathan Forest’s magic starts going haywire. The Veil Jumpers are founded

9:49-9:50 Dragon - Maevaris is removed from the Magisterium and the Lucerni are dissolved. The Shadow Dragons are formed.

9:51 Dragon - Rook (from any background) leaves their organization to help Varric.

9:52 Dragon - The events of Dragon Age: The Veilguard begin

So, the Grey Wardens are the oldest, the the Mourn Watch and Antivan Crows are also pretty old. Then the Lords of Fortune, Veil Jumpers, and Shadow Dragons are baby organizations in comparison!

Thanks for reading y’all!

[elffromforests]

How much of your soul was lost in the Ring, Celebrimbor?